Μια χαρά ειμαστε κ με 1.2 1.4 κώνο εμείς κι ας έχει 18.8 αυλό...ολη η βαρύτητα στο φυσίγγιο...αναρωτιέμαι όμως...γιατι σε όλα κι όχι μόνο για τις waterfowl editions re brow?
Browning Team
- Thread starter BeReT aKa RoBo aKa 1%
- Ημερομηνία δημιουργίας
skyfall
Banned
Ποιο καλοδεχουμενος στα χωντρα σκαγια και στα πολλα γραμαρια.
Μάκης
Banned
η καινούργια maxus του xristos vinci λογικά έχει τον μικρότερο κώνο οπότε με το που αρχίσει το κυνήγι θα έχουμε εντυπώσεις
Έτσι όπως τα λες Μάκη στα τρυγόνια θα έχω πλήρει εικόνα τη ζημιά κάνει το όπλο και θα σας πω τις εντυπώσεις ......η καινούργια maxus του xristos vinci λογικά έχει τον μικρότερο κώνο οπότε με το που αρχίσει το κυνήγι θα έχουμε εντυπώσεις
Lengthened Forcing Cones
By Randy Wakeman
One of the most highly touted features of a shotgun today is the mysterious lengthened forcing cone. Lengthened forcing cones have been touted to reduce recoil, give higher velocities, improve patterns and just about everything else you can imagine—perhaps giving us more miles per gallon as well. It falls into the category of what we like to call a "feature."
Features don’t have to do much; in fact they don’t have to really do anything at all. For a feature to be a “feature,” it just has to exist. If it exists, it can be advertised. It helps if we can’t measure the benefit of this feature easily, or at all. That way, no one can say we are wrong.
Shotgun makers like features. If they crow about it long enough and loud enough, then sooner or later they don’t even have to pretend to know what it does, or state what it does. When they advertise it in big, bold letters, people assume it is a very good thing, otherwise they wouldn’t make such a fuss about it.
That brings us to "Lengthened Forcing Cones!" or perhaps the more esoteric, "Precision-crafted, Highly Polished, Elongated Forcing Cone." They are about the same thing, of course, but we can ask a little bit more for our features if they take longer to say, or are harder to pronounce. "Cryogenic Elongated Forcing Cones" likely sell for a bit more.
When was the last time you saw a good shotgun pattern and rushed to measure your forcing cone? After someone shoots a good round of sporting clays, do people gather round and plead in hushed tones, "Could you tell me the length of your forcing cone, please?" What is the preferred forcing cone length of Olympic medalists, anyway? Somehow, that little bit of information never seems to make the news.
A forcing cone, of course, is the transition area from chamber dimension to the bore of your shotgun. The length is not really the point; it is the degree of taper. In theory, a more gentle taper is less disruptive to shot and wad. A short cone might be a bit under a half-inch section with a correspondingly sharp taper, where a long cone might be two or three inches or even longer. The beauty of a lengthened forcing cone is that we don’t have to say what the length was before you lengthened it, or what it is now. This is particularly amusing in the case of brand new models, never before manufactured, with "lengthened" forcing cones. It forces the consumer to believe that they were going to make it with shorter cones, but erased that part from the production prints and then lengthened them. Even though they aren’t any longer or shorter than they ever were, they only come one way, they are now lengthened because they could have made them shorter if they wanted. It is a lot like "room temperature," as no matter how hot or cold a room gets, it is still "room temperature."
Recently, I had a long session with one of top engineers in the industry, whose company has recently introduced a lengthened forcing cone on a couple of new models. After exchanging the usual pleasantries, the subject of forcing cones was breached. "You did some extensive R & D with these models, correct? A large quantity of shooting, carefully documented, with a variety of shells?" After being assured that this was indeed the case, with a great deal of time and money spent, I was told the new forcing cones gave beautiful and better patterns.
Naturally, I asked, "What can you show?" In other words, after all this R & D work, with a clean slate and the ability to use any forcing cone length you please, what is the documented benefit? A more even pattern? A higher percentage pattern? A 5% higher percentage pattern? 2%? 1%?
The answer was, "Well, no. We couldn’t quantify any of that." I was a bit surprised. Nothing? No trend? Something perhaps with steel or other chaotic shot? Nothing with higher velocity loads, or higher payload loads? Nothing, not even an average of three pellets per shot increase in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards?
The answer was clear: "No, we couldn’t find anything. The physics are sound, though, and it should work. We can say it doesn’t hurt anything."
That is the crux of this biscuit. There are several approaches that sound good, or can at least be made to sound very good regardless of manufacturer or brand. In terms of tangible, real-world performance there is often nothing that can be reliably shown, or shown at all. In the case of elongated forcing cones, on the list of really important shotgun features of the day, it ranks very close to the search for Bigfoot. While we can’t say that searching for Bigfoot will improve your shotgun patterns, we can confidently say that it doesn’t hurt anything.
By Randy Wakeman
One of the most highly touted features of a shotgun today is the mysterious lengthened forcing cone. Lengthened forcing cones have been touted to reduce recoil, give higher velocities, improve patterns and just about everything else you can imagine—perhaps giving us more miles per gallon as well. It falls into the category of what we like to call a "feature."
Features don’t have to do much; in fact they don’t have to really do anything at all. For a feature to be a “feature,” it just has to exist. If it exists, it can be advertised. It helps if we can’t measure the benefit of this feature easily, or at all. That way, no one can say we are wrong.
Shotgun makers like features. If they crow about it long enough and loud enough, then sooner or later they don’t even have to pretend to know what it does, or state what it does. When they advertise it in big, bold letters, people assume it is a very good thing, otherwise they wouldn’t make such a fuss about it.
That brings us to "Lengthened Forcing Cones!" or perhaps the more esoteric, "Precision-crafted, Highly Polished, Elongated Forcing Cone." They are about the same thing, of course, but we can ask a little bit more for our features if they take longer to say, or are harder to pronounce. "Cryogenic Elongated Forcing Cones" likely sell for a bit more.
When was the last time you saw a good shotgun pattern and rushed to measure your forcing cone? After someone shoots a good round of sporting clays, do people gather round and plead in hushed tones, "Could you tell me the length of your forcing cone, please?" What is the preferred forcing cone length of Olympic medalists, anyway? Somehow, that little bit of information never seems to make the news.
A forcing cone, of course, is the transition area from chamber dimension to the bore of your shotgun. The length is not really the point; it is the degree of taper. In theory, a more gentle taper is less disruptive to shot and wad. A short cone might be a bit under a half-inch section with a correspondingly sharp taper, where a long cone might be two or three inches or even longer. The beauty of a lengthened forcing cone is that we don’t have to say what the length was before you lengthened it, or what it is now. This is particularly amusing in the case of brand new models, never before manufactured, with "lengthened" forcing cones. It forces the consumer to believe that they were going to make it with shorter cones, but erased that part from the production prints and then lengthened them. Even though they aren’t any longer or shorter than they ever were, they only come one way, they are now lengthened because they could have made them shorter if they wanted. It is a lot like "room temperature," as no matter how hot or cold a room gets, it is still "room temperature."
Recently, I had a long session with one of top engineers in the industry, whose company has recently introduced a lengthened forcing cone on a couple of new models. After exchanging the usual pleasantries, the subject of forcing cones was breached. "You did some extensive R & D with these models, correct? A large quantity of shooting, carefully documented, with a variety of shells?" After being assured that this was indeed the case, with a great deal of time and money spent, I was told the new forcing cones gave beautiful and better patterns.
Naturally, I asked, "What can you show?" In other words, after all this R & D work, with a clean slate and the ability to use any forcing cone length you please, what is the documented benefit? A more even pattern? A higher percentage pattern? A 5% higher percentage pattern? 2%? 1%?
The answer was, "Well, no. We couldn’t quantify any of that." I was a bit surprised. Nothing? No trend? Something perhaps with steel or other chaotic shot? Nothing with higher velocity loads, or higher payload loads? Nothing, not even an average of three pellets per shot increase in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards?
The answer was clear: "No, we couldn’t find anything. The physics are sound, though, and it should work. We can say it doesn’t hurt anything."
That is the crux of this biscuit. There are several approaches that sound good, or can at least be made to sound very good regardless of manufacturer or brand. In terms of tangible, real-world performance there is often nothing that can be reliably shown, or shown at all. In the case of elongated forcing cones, on the list of really important shotgun features of the day, it ranks very close to the search for Bigfoot. While we can’t say that searching for Bigfoot will improve your shotgun patterns, we can confidently say that it doesn’t hurt anything.
Καλησπερα σας...
Εχω μια απορια και ηθελα την γνωμη σας και την συμβουλη σας σχετικα με μια
browning gold fusion που εχω στην κατοχη μου εδω και μερικους μηνες.
Οταν τελειωσε το κυνηγι λοιπον ελεισα το οπλο να το καθαρισω,
βγαζοντας την σκανδαλη για να καθαρισω την βαση μεσα
ειδα στο πισω μερος της βασης απο μεσα στο σημειο δηλαδη που κουμπωνη
η σκανδαλη περιπου στο πισω μερος της, ειχε ενα στρογγυλο σαν σφουγαρακι
κολημενο στην βαση.
Το εκανα λιγο ετσι με το χερι κι αυτο τριβοταν και στο τελος βγηκε σαν να ειχε
ρεψη δηλαδη....
Το εψαξα στο ιντερνετ και σε καποιο sait με ανταλακτικα το ειδα αλλα δεν εγραφε
συγκεκριμενα τι κανει αυτο και τι χρειαζεται....
ξερει κανεις κατι κι αν πρεπει να το αγορασω για να το αντικαταστησω?
Σας βαζω και φωτο να δειτε τι ακριβως εννοω.
image upload free
Εχω μια απορια και ηθελα την γνωμη σας και την συμβουλη σας σχετικα με μια
browning gold fusion που εχω στην κατοχη μου εδω και μερικους μηνες.
Οταν τελειωσε το κυνηγι λοιπον ελεισα το οπλο να το καθαρισω,
βγαζοντας την σκανδαλη για να καθαρισω την βαση μεσα
ειδα στο πισω μερος της βασης απο μεσα στο σημειο δηλαδη που κουμπωνη
η σκανδαλη περιπου στο πισω μερος της, ειχε ενα στρογγυλο σαν σφουγαρακι
κολημενο στην βαση.
Το εκανα λιγο ετσι με το χερι κι αυτο τριβοταν και στο τελος βγηκε σαν να ειχε
ρεψη δηλαδη....
Το εψαξα στο ιντερνετ και σε καποιο sait με ανταλακτικα το ειδα αλλα δεν εγραφε
συγκεκριμενα τι κανει αυτο και τι χρειαζεται....
ξερει κανεις κατι κι αν πρεπει να το αγορασω για να το αντικαταστησω?
Σας βαζω και φωτο να δειτε τι ακριβως εννοω.
image upload free
Όπως λέει και ο Βασίλης το μόνο που μπορώ να σκεφτώ, ίσως για να μην αποκτήσει μπόσικα η βάση της σκανδάλη από τους κραδασμούς του κλείστρου. Δεν βλέπω εκεί κάποια άλλη χρησιμότητα.
Ναι ειναι κι αυτη μια αποψη σωστη φιλε γιαννη, το ιδιο πραγμα το εχουν και η SX3 και δυο φιλοι μου που την εχουν
ουτε αυτοι καν ξερουν για το θεμα.
Εν τω μεταξυ σε μενα οπως ειπα εχει λιωση εχει φθαρη τελειως και δεν ξερω αν ειναι απαρατητο
να το ψαξω που και σε πιο καταστημα μπορω να το βρω για να το βαλω και στην δικη μου browning....
αν γνωριζει καποιος συναδελφος επι του θεματος ας μας ενημερωση.
Μάκης
Banned
Γιώργο καλησπέρα πάνω σ αυτό το προστατευτικό εφαρμόζει το πίσω κοίλο μασιφ μέρος της σκανδαλοθήκης
απορροφά κραδασμούς (όπως λένε Βασίλης Γιάννης)που δημιουργούνται από το κλείστρο στην σκανδαλοθήκη και έτσι δεν ταλαιπωρούνται-λασκάρουν-ατονούν οι πείροι ασφαλείας που συγκρατούν την σκανδαλοθήκη
γι αυτό σε πολλές καραμπίνες που δεν το έχουν παλιότερα έφευγε ο πείρος- πείροι
αυτό λοιπόν το προστατευτικό με τα χρόνια αλλοιώνεται από τα μπαρούτια και τα λάδια συντήρησης
καλό είναι να το αλλάξεις,το βρίσκεις πανεύκολα και πάμφηνα σε χρώματα σιδηρικά ζητώντας προστατευτικά(αυτοκόλλητα) που βάζουν σε ντουλάπια κουζίνας-συρτάρια για να μην κοπανάνε
αυτό έβαλε και ο φίλος μου σε sx3 που είχε φθαρεί
με 3-4 (και πολλά λέω)ευρω παιρνεις 15-20 στη συσκευασία
πιστεύω να βοήθησα
Kαλησπερα φιλε Μακη...
κατ' αρχην σ' ευχαριστω πολυ για την απαντηση σου,
και νομιζω εισουν πολυ κατατοπιστικος για το θεμα αυτο.
Οσους φιλους μου κι αν ειχα ρωτηση δεν ηξεραν γι αυτο
και παρολο που κανα δυο εχουν ασχοληθη και ξερουν πραγματα πανω στα οπλα
και ειδικα σε browning.
θα το αλλαξω με καινουριο κοιταζωντας (ψαχνωντας)
στα καταστηματα που ειπες .
Φυσικα και βοηθησες και παλι σ' ευχαριστω φιλε μου...
Ευχαριστω επισης και τα αλλα παιδια πιο πανω (βασιλη και γιαννη) για τις απαντησης τους.
κατ' αρχην σ' ευχαριστω πολυ για την απαντηση σου,
και νομιζω εισουν πολυ κατατοπιστικος για το θεμα αυτο.
Οσους φιλους μου κι αν ειχα ρωτηση δεν ηξεραν γι αυτο
και παρολο που κανα δυο εχουν ασχοληθη και ξερουν πραγματα πανω στα οπλα
και ειδικα σε browning.
θα το αλλαξω με καινουριο κοιταζωντας (ψαχνωντας)
στα καταστηματα που ειπες .
Φυσικα και βοηθησες και παλι σ' ευχαριστω φιλε μου...
Ευχαριστω επισης και τα αλλα παιδια πιο πανω (βασιλη και γιαννη) για τις απαντησης τους.
Μετα απο συζητηση με τον Δημητρη(dim) και αρκετο προβληματισμο ηθελα να ρωτησω εαν γνωριζει καποιος εαν σε browning phoenix που ερχεσαι χωρις φλατζες αλλαγης κλισης υπαρχει πατουρα στο οπλο για να βαλεις after market φλατζες?
Μάκης
Banned
παίρνει τις φλάντζες της gold αλλά πολύ δύσκολο να βρείς....αν υπάρχουν μόνο στον παλιό αντιπρόσωπο Χ.Σακκάς που τις χρέωνε πριν 5 χρόνια 10 ευρώ
http://www.vrisko.gr/details/3j4g74bi4i44akbf_d7g7cb6c2b_ae57
στολίδια ζωγραφιές η καινούργια μόδα στα αυτογεμή
η κάθε αντιπροσωπεία προσπαθεί να εντυπωσιάσει με ομορφιές πάνω στα όπλα
